假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必...假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必要的话(或者不想像我这样无事自虐的话),可以不看。(展开)
假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必...假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必要的话(或者不想像我这样无事自虐的话),可以不看。(展开)
Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood. 这句话的主语是什么呢?under该做何解? 上下文在此: The w...(4回应)
2014-03-06 20:25
Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood.引自第38页
这句话的主语是什么呢?under该做何解?
上下文在此:
The worldly rational philosophy of the eighteenth century did not find favour alone or even principally in the countries of highest capitalistic devel-opment. The doctrines of Voltaire are even to-day the common property of broad upper, and what is practically more important, middle-class groups in the Romance Catholic countries. Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood. But we have already convinced ourselves that this is by no means the soil in which that relationship of a man to his calling as a task, which is necessary to capitalism, has pre-eminently grown. In fact, one may—this simple proposition, which is often forgotten should be placed at the beginning of every study which essays to deal with rationalism—rationalize life from fundamentally different basic points of view and in very differ-ent directions.
既然念书那么辛苦,就把笔记po上来大家一起分享吧。 Max Weber believes: 传统主义是/也是人们的天性: 01. 多挣钱不如少劳动更有吸引力 the opportunity of earning more was less attractive than that of working less. p. 24 - a example of traditionalism 02. 人并非天生想要赚更多的钱,相反只想按照习惯的方式生活,能正道为此所需要的那些钱就行了。A man does not "by nature" wish to earn more and more money, but...
2014-02-02 01:11
既然念书那么辛苦,就把笔记po上来大家一起分享吧。
Max Weber believes:
传统主义是/也是人们的天性:
01. 多挣钱不如少劳动更有吸引力 the opportunity of earning more was less attractive than that of working less. p. 24 - a example of traditionalism
02. 人并非天生想要赚更多的钱,相反只想按照习惯的方式生活,能正道为此所需要的那些钱就行了。A man does not "by nature" wish to earn more and more money, but simply to live as he is accustomed to live and to earn as much as is necessary for that purpose. p.24 - 在现代资本主义开始前,就遭到这种前资本主义精神的阻碍 wherever modern capitalism has begun its work of increasing the productivity of human labour by increasing its intensity, it has encountered the immensely stubborn resistance of this leading trait of pre-capitalistic labour. p. 24.
(yy:而现代资本主义的发展,需要提高生产力,克服传统主义,那要怎么办呢?提高工资吗?- 不可,上文所述。降低工资率吗?-不可,下文所述。)
03. 不赞成低工资率可以提高生产效率 - low wage-rates could increase productivity. 虽然Weber不赞同提高工资可以调动积极性,但是他也不赞同其反向 - 降低工人工资率(the low wage-rates)(前为high wage-rate) 得到产出 the low wages were productive - p. 24 为什么呢?
a. 因为低工资不等于廉价劳动。从纯粹的观点看,不能满足胜利需要的工资,会降低劳动效率,这在长时间里甚至会导致不适者生存。Low wages are by no means identical with cheap labour. From a purely quantitative point of view the efficiency of labour decreases with a wage which is physiologically insufficient, which may in the long run even mean a survival of the unfit.
b. 从纯商业的角度看,凡是生产某种商品需要熟练劳动,需要运用很容易损坏的贵重机器,或者需要敏锐的注意力和首创力,低工资都是失败的。在此低工资毫无用处,而且其后果往往与意想的相反。Low wage fail even from a purely business point of view wherever its is a question of producing goods which require any sort of skilled labour, or the use of expensive machinery which is easily damaged, or in general wherever any great amount of sharp attention or of initiative is required. Here low wages do not pay, and their effect is the opposite of what was intended.
!!!****所以要肿么办呢?
人们只有把劳动当做唯一目的,当做天职去完成。--而这种态度绝对不是人原来就有的态度。。Labour must, on the contrary, be performed as if it were an absolute end in itself, a calling. But such an attitude is by no means a product of nature. p. 25 (也就是说人们不可能把劳动当做天性啊!!!!)
所以!!!重点来了,唯一的解决办法便是: a long and arduous process of EDUCATION!! p. 25. It cannot be evoked by low wages or high ones alone, but can only be the product of a long and arduous process of education.
然后Weber又给了一个例子of traditionalism ,说那些传统的女性,尤其是未婚的,很难放弃传统的工作办法而接受新的工作办法 The backward traditional form of labour, especially women wooers & unmarried ones, are almost unable and unwilling to give up tractional method of work and adopted efficient one. 只有那些具有特殊宗教背景,尤其是Peitistic是特殊情况。Only with girls having a specifically religious, especially a Pietistic background. p. 26
所以,Weber认为:只有那些有宗教背景的人,才最具有接受经济学教育的能力。在她们身上,集中精神的能力,以及对工作的最基本的责任感,常同一种善于计算收入高低的严密经济头脑,以及能够极大提高工作成效的冷静自制和节俭结合在一起。...that by far the best chances of economic education are found among this group. The ability of mental concentration, as well as the absolutely essential feeling of obligation to one's job, are here most often combined with a strict economy which calculates the possibility of high earnings, and a cool self-control and frugality which enormously increase performance. p. 26. ---- 这就为以劳动
所以要用宗教主义克服传统主义???!!是这个意思吗???
Weber认为那些人成功是因为“他们不想消费只想赚钱”(同时还有节俭的精神)-because they did not wish to consume but to earn. p. 30
Weber认为现代资本主义扩张的原动力不是资本额从何而来的问头,而是资本主义精神的发展问题。the new spirit, the spirit of modern capitalism. The question of the motive forces in the expansion of modern capitalism ….is above all, of the development of the spirit of capitalism. p.31
所以都是什么人拥有这样的精神呢?- they were men who had grown up in the hard school of life, calculating and daring at the same time, above all temperate and reliable, shrewd and completely devoted to their business, with strictly bourgeois opinions and principles. p. 32
Weber认为那些具有资本主义精神的人,如果问他们无休止的活动的意义是什么?为什么他们从不满足他们已经具有的东西? -- 他们也许会回答:为了子孙后代。--但是,这个不是他们所独有的,传统主义者也会有这样的动机。If you ask them what is the meaning of their restless activity, why they are never satisfied with what they have. -- they might answer "to provide for my children and grandchildren." - also a reason for the traditionalist. p. 32
所以, Weber认为,他们无休止活动以及不满足的原因是:连续不断的工作已经称谓他们生活的必要内容。more correctly, simply: that business with its continuous work has become a necessary part of their lives. -- That is in fact the only possible motivation. 但是Weber有觉得这个从个人幸福观点出发,看起来又是很不合理的. seen from the view-point of personal happiness, so irrational about this sort of life, where a man exists for the sake of his business, instead of the reverse. p. 32 (所以他到底是赞成还是不赞成??)
Modern Capitalism & Traditionalism
Behavior & religions
Historically, the four major forms of ascetic Protestantism have been Calvinism, Pietism, Methodism, and the Baptist sects. None of these churches are completely independent of each other, or even from non-ascetic churches. Even their strongest dogmatic differences were combined in various ways, and similar moral conduct can be found in all four. In this section, Weber presents some of the most...
2012-06-04 23:20
Historically, the four major forms of ascetic Protestantism have been Calvinism, Pietism, Methodism, and the Baptist sects. None of these churches are completely independent of each other, or even from non-ascetic churches. Even their strongest dogmatic differences were combined in various ways, and similar moral conduct can be found in all four.
In this section, Weber presents some of the most fundamental doctrines of Calvinism, as well as discussing how dogma affected practical living. After presenting the doctrines of Calvinism, Weber turns to three other ascetic Protestant religions
The first religion Weber describes is Calvinism. Calvinism's most distinctive dogma is the doctrine of predestination. Calvinists believe that God preordains which people are saved and which are damned. Calvinists came to this idea from logical necessity. Men exist for the sake of God, and to apply earthly standards of justice to God is meaningless and insulting. To question one's fate is similar to an animal complaining it wasn't born a man. Humans do not have the power to change God's decrees, and we only know that part of humanity is saved, and part damned.
It was psychologically necessary that they have some means of recognizing people in a state of grace, and two such means emerged. First, it was considered an absolute duty to consider oneself to be one of the saved, and to see doubts as temptations of evil. Secondly, worldly activity was encouraged as the best means of gaining that self-confidence.
Why could worldly activity take on this level of importance?
Calvinism rejected the mystical elements of Lutheranism, where humans were a vessel to be filled by God. Rather, Calvinists believed that God worked through them. Faith had to be shown in objective results. Good works were not a means to salvation, but they were a sign of having been chosen.
Weber observes that Calvinism expected systematic self-control, and provided no opportunity for forgiveness of weakness. "The God of Calvinism demanded of his believers not single good works, but a life of good works combined into a unified system." This was a rational and systematic approach to life. Since people had to prove their faith through worldly activity, Calvinism demanded a kind of worldly asceticism.
After presenting the doctrines of Calvinism, Weber turns to three other ascetic Protestant religions, the first being Pietism. Historically, the doctrine of predestination was also the starting point of Pietism, and Pietism is closely linked to Calvinism. Pietists had a deep distrust of the Church of the theologians, and they tried to live "a life freed from all the temptations of the world and in all its details dictated by God's will." They looked for signs of rebirth in their daily activity. Pietism had a greater emphasis on the emotional side of religion than orthodox Calvinism accepted, and Lutheran strains of Pietism existed.. First, Pietists believed that the methodical development of one's state of grace in terms of the law was a sign of grace. Secondly, they believed that God gives signs to those in states of perfection if they wait patiently. We see that Pietism had an uncertain basis for its asceticism that made it less consistent than Calvinism. This is partly due to Lutheran influences, and partly due to emotionalism. This study thus explains some of the differences in the character of people under the influence of Pietism instead of Calvinism.
Methodism represented a combination of emotional yet ascetic religion with an increasing indifference to Calvinism's doctrinal basis. Its strongest characteristic was its "methodical, systematic nature of conduct." Method was primarily used to bring about the emotional act of conversion, and the religion had a strong emotional character. Good works were only the means of knowing one's state of grace. The feeling of grace was necessary for salvation. From our viewpoint, the Methodist ethic had an uncertain foundation similar to Pietism's. Like Calvinism, they looked at conduct to assess true conversion. However, as a late product, Methodism can generally be ignored, since it doesn't add anything new to the idea of a calling.
The Baptist sects (Baptists, Mennonites, and Quakers) form an independent source of ascetic Protestantism other than Calvinism; their ethics rest on a different basis. These sects are unified by the idea of a believers' church, a community of only the true believers. This worked through individual revelation, and one had to wait for the Spirit and avoid sinful attachments to the world. Despite having a different foundation than Calvinism, they too rejected all idolatry of the flesh as a detraction from the respect due God. They believed in the continued relevance of revelation. Like the Calvinists, they devalued the sacraments as a means to salvation, which was an important form of rationalization. This led to the practice of worldly asceticism. An interest in economic occupations was increased by their rejection of politics; they embraced the ethic of "honesty is the best policy."
These forms of ascetic Protestantism are less central to Weber's study than Calvinism, and it is therefore less important to get a complete understanding of the doctrine and lifestyle of their followers. These religions are less rational than Calvinism, because they have a strong emotional element that introduces some of the "magic" that Calvinism rejected. These religions do encourage systematic and methodical living, however, which is an important trait of rationalization. The most important tie among these different religions is their worldliness and their belief in signs of religious grace. This leaves these religions with a concept of the calling that is centered in the practical world.
Weber now turns to the conclusion of his study, and attempts to understand the relationship between ascetic Protestantism and the spirit of capitalism. Weber then attempts to clarify the ways in which the Puritan idea of the calling and asceticism influenced the development of the capitalistic way of life.
First, asceticism opposed the spontaneous enjoyment of life and its opportunities. Such enjoyment leads people away from work in a calling and religion. Weber argues, "That powerful tendency toward uniformity of life, which today so immensely aids the capitalistic interest in the standardization of production, had its ideal foundations in the repudiation of all idolatry of the flesh."
Furthermore, the Puritans rejected any spending of money on entertainment that didn't "serve God's glory." They felt a duty to hold and increase their possessions. It was ascetic Protestantism that gave this attitude its ethical foundation. It had the psychological effect of freeing the acquisition if goods from traditionalist ethics' inhibitions.
Asceticism also condemned dishonesty and impulsive greed. The pursuit of wealth in itself was bad, but attaining it as the result of one's labor was a sign of God's blessing.
The religious asceticism also gave the businessmen industrious workers, and assured him that inequality was part of God's design. Thus, one of the major elements of the spirit of modern capitalism, rational conduct based on the idea of a calling, was "born" from the spirit of Christian asceticism.
既然念书那么辛苦,就把笔记po上来大家一起分享吧。 Max Weber believes: 传统主义是/也是人们的天性: 01. 多挣钱不如少劳动更有吸引力 the opportunity of earning more was less attractive than that of working less. p. 24 - a example of traditionalism 02. 人并非天生想要赚更多的钱,相反只想按照习惯的方式生活,能正道为此所需要的那些钱就行了。A man does not "by nature" wish to earn more and more money, but...
2014-02-02 01:11
既然念书那么辛苦,就把笔记po上来大家一起分享吧。
Max Weber believes:
传统主义是/也是人们的天性:
01. 多挣钱不如少劳动更有吸引力 the opportunity of earning more was less attractive than that of working less. p. 24 - a example of traditionalism
02. 人并非天生想要赚更多的钱,相反只想按照习惯的方式生活,能正道为此所需要的那些钱就行了。A man does not "by nature" wish to earn more and more money, but simply to live as he is accustomed to live and to earn as much as is necessary for that purpose. p.24 - 在现代资本主义开始前,就遭到这种前资本主义精神的阻碍 wherever modern capitalism has begun its work of increasing the productivity of human labour by increasing its intensity, it has encountered the immensely stubborn resistance of this leading trait of pre-capitalistic labour. p. 24.
(yy:而现代资本主义的发展,需要提高生产力,克服传统主义,那要怎么办呢?提高工资吗?- 不可,上文所述。降低工资率吗?-不可,下文所述。)
03. 不赞成低工资率可以提高生产效率 - low wage-rates could increase productivity. 虽然Weber不赞同提高工资可以调动积极性,但是他也不赞同其反向 - 降低工人工资率(the low wage-rates)(前为high wage-rate) 得到产出 the low wages were productive - p. 24 为什么呢?
a. 因为低工资不等于廉价劳动。从纯粹的观点看,不能满足胜利需要的工资,会降低劳动效率,这在长时间里甚至会导致不适者生存。Low wages are by no means identical with cheap labour. From a purely quantitative point of view the efficiency of labour decreases with a wage which is physiologically insufficient, which may in the long run even mean a survival of the unfit.
b. 从纯商业的角度看,凡是生产某种商品需要熟练劳动,需要运用很容易损坏的贵重机器,或者需要敏锐的注意力和首创力,低工资都是失败的。在此低工资毫无用处,而且其后果往往与意想的相反。Low wage fail even from a purely business point of view wherever its is a question of producing goods which require any sort of skilled labour, or the use of expensive machinery which is easily damaged, or in general wherever any great amount of sharp attention or of initiative is required. Here low wages do not pay, and their effect is the opposite of what was intended.
!!!****所以要肿么办呢?
人们只有把劳动当做唯一目的,当做天职去完成。--而这种态度绝对不是人原来就有的态度。。Labour must, on the contrary, be performed as if it were an absolute end in itself, a calling. But such an attitude is by no means a product of nature. p. 25 (也就是说人们不可能把劳动当做天性啊!!!!)
所以!!!重点来了,唯一的解决办法便是: a long and arduous process of EDUCATION!! p. 25. It cannot be evoked by low wages or high ones alone, but can only be the product of a long and arduous process of education.
然后Weber又给了一个例子of traditionalism ,说那些传统的女性,尤其是未婚的,很难放弃传统的工作办法而接受新的工作办法 The backward traditional form of labour, especially women wooers & unmarried ones, are almost unable and unwilling to give up tractional method of work and adopted efficient one. 只有那些具有特殊宗教背景,尤其是Peitistic是特殊情况。Only with girls having a specifically religious, especially a Pietistic background. p. 26
所以,Weber认为:只有那些有宗教背景的人,才最具有接受经济学教育的能力。在她们身上,集中精神的能力,以及对工作的最基本的责任感,常同一种善于计算收入高低的严密经济头脑,以及能够极大提高工作成效的冷静自制和节俭结合在一起。...that by far the best chances of economic education are found among this group. The ability of mental concentration, as well as the absolutely essential feeling of obligation to one's job, are here most often combined with a strict economy which calculates the possibility of high earnings, and a cool self-control and frugality which enormously increase performance. p. 26. ---- 这就为以劳动
所以要用宗教主义克服传统主义???!!是这个意思吗???
Weber认为那些人成功是因为“他们不想消费只想赚钱”(同时还有节俭的精神)-because they did not wish to consume but to earn. p. 30
Weber认为现代资本主义扩张的原动力不是资本额从何而来的问头,而是资本主义精神的发展问题。the new spirit, the spirit of modern capitalism. The question of the motive forces in the expansion of modern capitalism ….is above all, of the development of the spirit of capitalism. p.31
所以都是什么人拥有这样的精神呢?- they were men who had grown up in the hard school of life, calculating and daring at the same time, above all temperate and reliable, shrewd and completely devoted to their business, with strictly bourgeois opinions and principles. p. 32
Weber认为那些具有资本主义精神的人,如果问他们无休止的活动的意义是什么?为什么他们从不满足他们已经具有的东西? -- 他们也许会回答:为了子孙后代。--但是,这个不是他们所独有的,传统主义者也会有这样的动机。If you ask them what is the meaning of their restless activity, why they are never satisfied with what they have. -- they might answer "to provide for my children and grandchildren." - also a reason for the traditionalist. p. 32
所以, Weber认为,他们无休止活动以及不满足的原因是:连续不断的工作已经称谓他们生活的必要内容。more correctly, simply: that business with its continuous work has become a necessary part of their lives. -- That is in fact the only possible motivation. 但是Weber有觉得这个从个人幸福观点出发,看起来又是很不合理的. seen from the view-point of personal happiness, so irrational about this sort of life, where a man exists for the sake of his business, instead of the reverse. p. 32 (所以他到底是赞成还是不赞成??)
Modern Capitalism & Traditionalism
Behavior & religions
Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood. 这句话的主语是什么呢?under该做何解? 上下文在此: The w...(4回应)
2014-03-06 20:25
Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood.引自第38页
这句话的主语是什么呢?under该做何解?
上下文在此:
The worldly rational philosophy of the eighteenth century did not find favour alone or even principally in the countries of highest capitalistic devel-opment. The doctrines of Voltaire are even to-day the common property of broad upper, and what is practically more important, middle-class groups in the Romance Catholic countries. Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood. But we have already convinced ourselves that this is by no means the soil in which that relationship of a man to his calling as a task, which is necessary to capitalism, has pre-eminently grown. In fact, one may—this simple proposition, which is often forgotten should be placed at the beginning of every study which essays to deal with rationalism—rationalize life from fundamentally different basic points of view and in very differ-ent directions.
Historically, the four major forms of ascetic Protestantism have been Calvinism, Pietism, Methodism, and the Baptist sects. None of these churches are completely independent of each other, or even from non-ascetic churches. Even their strongest dogmatic differences were combined in various ways, and similar moral conduct can be found in all four. In this section, Weber presents some of the most...
2012-06-04 23:20
Historically, the four major forms of ascetic Protestantism have been Calvinism, Pietism, Methodism, and the Baptist sects. None of these churches are completely independent of each other, or even from non-ascetic churches. Even their strongest dogmatic differences were combined in various ways, and similar moral conduct can be found in all four.
In this section, Weber presents some of the most fundamental doctrines of Calvinism, as well as discussing how dogma affected practical living. After presenting the doctrines of Calvinism, Weber turns to three other ascetic Protestant religions
The first religion Weber describes is Calvinism. Calvinism's most distinctive dogma is the doctrine of predestination. Calvinists believe that God preordains which people are saved and which are damned. Calvinists came to this idea from logical necessity. Men exist for the sake of God, and to apply earthly standards of justice to God is meaningless and insulting. To question one's fate is similar to an animal complaining it wasn't born a man. Humans do not have the power to change God's decrees, and we only know that part of humanity is saved, and part damned.
It was psychologically necessary that they have some means of recognizing people in a state of grace, and two such means emerged. First, it was considered an absolute duty to consider oneself to be one of the saved, and to see doubts as temptations of evil. Secondly, worldly activity was encouraged as the best means of gaining that self-confidence.
Why could worldly activity take on this level of importance?
Calvinism rejected the mystical elements of Lutheranism, where humans were a vessel to be filled by God. Rather, Calvinists believed that God worked through them. Faith had to be shown in objective results. Good works were not a means to salvation, but they were a sign of having been chosen.
Weber observes that Calvinism expected systematic self-control, and provided no opportunity for forgiveness of weakness. "The God of Calvinism demanded of his believers not single good works, but a life of good works combined into a unified system." This was a rational and systematic approach to life. Since people had to prove their faith through worldly activity, Calvinism demanded a kind of worldly asceticism.
After presenting the doctrines of Calvinism, Weber turns to three other ascetic Protestant religions, the first being Pietism. Historically, the doctrine of predestination was also the starting point of Pietism, and Pietism is closely linked to Calvinism. Pietists had a deep distrust of the Church of the theologians, and they tried to live "a life freed from all the temptations of the world and in all its details dictated by God's will." They looked for signs of rebirth in their daily activity. Pietism had a greater emphasis on the emotional side of religion than orthodox Calvinism accepted, and Lutheran strains of Pietism existed.. First, Pietists believed that the methodical development of one's state of grace in terms of the law was a sign of grace. Secondly, they believed that God gives signs to those in states of perfection if they wait patiently. We see that Pietism had an uncertain basis for its asceticism that made it less consistent than Calvinism. This is partly due to Lutheran influences, and partly due to emotionalism. This study thus explains some of the differences in the character of people under the influence of Pietism instead of Calvinism.
Methodism represented a combination of emotional yet ascetic religion with an increasing indifference to Calvinism's doctrinal basis. Its strongest characteristic was its "methodical, systematic nature of conduct." Method was primarily used to bring about the emotional act of conversion, and the religion had a strong emotional character. Good works were only the means of knowing one's state of grace. The feeling of grace was necessary for salvation. From our viewpoint, the Methodist ethic had an uncertain foundation similar to Pietism's. Like Calvinism, they looked at conduct to assess true conversion. However, as a late product, Methodism can generally be ignored, since it doesn't add anything new to the idea of a calling.
The Baptist sects (Baptists, Mennonites, and Quakers) form an independent source of ascetic Protestantism other than Calvinism; their ethics rest on a different basis. These sects are unified by the idea of a believers' church, a community of only the true believers. This worked through individual revelation, and one had to wait for the Spirit and avoid sinful attachments to the world. Despite having a different foundation than Calvinism, they too rejected all idolatry of the flesh as a detraction from the respect due God. They believed in the continued relevance of revelation. Like the Calvinists, they devalued the sacraments as a means to salvation, which was an important form of rationalization. This led to the practice of worldly asceticism. An interest in economic occupations was increased by their rejection of politics; they embraced the ethic of "honesty is the best policy."
These forms of ascetic Protestantism are less central to Weber's study than Calvinism, and it is therefore less important to get a complete understanding of the doctrine and lifestyle of their followers. These religions are less rational than Calvinism, because they have a strong emotional element that introduces some of the "magic" that Calvinism rejected. These religions do encourage systematic and methodical living, however, which is an important trait of rationalization. The most important tie among these different religions is their worldliness and their belief in signs of religious grace. This leaves these religions with a concept of the calling that is centered in the practical world.
Weber now turns to the conclusion of his study, and attempts to understand the relationship between ascetic Protestantism and the spirit of capitalism. Weber then attempts to clarify the ways in which the Puritan idea of the calling and asceticism influenced the development of the capitalistic way of life.
First, asceticism opposed the spontaneous enjoyment of life and its opportunities. Such enjoyment leads people away from work in a calling and religion. Weber argues, "That powerful tendency toward uniformity of life, which today so immensely aids the capitalistic interest in the standardization of production, had its ideal foundations in the repudiation of all idolatry of the flesh."
Furthermore, the Puritans rejected any spending of money on entertainment that didn't "serve God's glory." They felt a duty to hold and increase their possessions. It was ascetic Protestantism that gave this attitude its ethical foundation. It had the psychological effect of freeing the acquisition if goods from traditionalist ethics' inhibitions.
Asceticism also condemned dishonesty and impulsive greed. The pursuit of wealth in itself was bad, but attaining it as the result of one's labor was a sign of God's blessing.
The religious asceticism also gave the businessmen industrious workers, and assured him that inequality was part of God's design. Thus, one of the major elements of the spirit of modern capitalism, rational conduct based on the idea of a calling, was "born" from the spirit of Christian asceticism.
Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood. 这句话的主语是什么呢?under该做何解? 上下文在此: The w...(4回应)
2014-03-06 20:25
Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood.引自第38页
这句话的主语是什么呢?under该做何解?
上下文在此:
The worldly rational philosophy of the eighteenth century did not find favour alone or even principally in the countries of highest capitalistic devel-opment. The doctrines of Voltaire are even to-day the common property of broad upper, and what is practically more important, middle-class groups in the Romance Catholic countries. Finally, if under practical rationalism is understood the type of attitude which sees and judges the world consciously in terms of the worldly interests of the individual ego, then this view of life was and is the special peculiarity of the peoples of the liberum arbi-trium, such as the Italians and the French are in very flesh and blood. But we have already convinced ourselves that this is by no means the soil in which that relationship of a man to his calling as a task, which is necessary to capitalism, has pre-eminently grown. In fact, one may—this simple proposition, which is often forgotten should be placed at the beginning of every study which essays to deal with rationalism—rationalize life from fundamentally different basic points of view and in very differ-ent directions.
既然念书那么辛苦,就把笔记po上来大家一起分享吧。 Max Weber believes: 传统主义是/也是人们的天性: 01. 多挣钱不如少劳动更有吸引力 the opportunity of earning more was less attractive than that of working less. p. 24 - a example of traditionalism 02. 人并非天生想要赚更多的钱,相反只想按照习惯的方式生活,能正道为此所需要的那些钱就行了。A man does not "by nature" wish to earn more and more money, but...
2014-02-02 01:11
既然念书那么辛苦,就把笔记po上来大家一起分享吧。
Max Weber believes:
传统主义是/也是人们的天性:
01. 多挣钱不如少劳动更有吸引力 the opportunity of earning more was less attractive than that of working less. p. 24 - a example of traditionalism
02. 人并非天生想要赚更多的钱,相反只想按照习惯的方式生活,能正道为此所需要的那些钱就行了。A man does not "by nature" wish to earn more and more money, but simply to live as he is accustomed to live and to earn as much as is necessary for that purpose. p.24 - 在现代资本主义开始前,就遭到这种前资本主义精神的阻碍 wherever modern capitalism has begun its work of increasing the productivity of human labour by increasing its intensity, it has encountered the immensely stubborn resistance of this leading trait of pre-capitalistic labour. p. 24.
(yy:而现代资本主义的发展,需要提高生产力,克服传统主义,那要怎么办呢?提高工资吗?- 不可,上文所述。降低工资率吗?-不可,下文所述。)
03. 不赞成低工资率可以提高生产效率 - low wage-rates could increase productivity. 虽然Weber不赞同提高工资可以调动积极性,但是他也不赞同其反向 - 降低工人工资率(the low wage-rates)(前为high wage-rate) 得到产出 the low wages were productive - p. 24 为什么呢?
a. 因为低工资不等于廉价劳动。从纯粹的观点看,不能满足胜利需要的工资,会降低劳动效率,这在长时间里甚至会导致不适者生存。Low wages are by no means identical with cheap labour. From a purely quantitative point of view the efficiency of labour decreases with a wage which is physiologically insufficient, which may in the long run even mean a survival of the unfit.
b. 从纯商业的角度看,凡是生产某种商品需要熟练劳动,需要运用很容易损坏的贵重机器,或者需要敏锐的注意力和首创力,低工资都是失败的。在此低工资毫无用处,而且其后果往往与意想的相反。Low wage fail even from a purely business point of view wherever its is a question of producing goods which require any sort of skilled labour, or the use of expensive machinery which is easily damaged, or in general wherever any great amount of sharp attention or of initiative is required. Here low wages do not pay, and their effect is the opposite of what was intended.
!!!****所以要肿么办呢?
人们只有把劳动当做唯一目的,当做天职去完成。--而这种态度绝对不是人原来就有的态度。。Labour must, on the contrary, be performed as if it were an absolute end in itself, a calling. But such an attitude is by no means a product of nature. p. 25 (也就是说人们不可能把劳动当做天性啊!!!!)
所以!!!重点来了,唯一的解决办法便是: a long and arduous process of EDUCATION!! p. 25. It cannot be evoked by low wages or high ones alone, but can only be the product of a long and arduous process of education.
然后Weber又给了一个例子of traditionalism ,说那些传统的女性,尤其是未婚的,很难放弃传统的工作办法而接受新的工作办法 The backward traditional form of labour, especially women wooers & unmarried ones, are almost unable and unwilling to give up tractional method of work and adopted efficient one. 只有那些具有特殊宗教背景,尤其是Peitistic是特殊情况。Only with girls having a specifically religious, especially a Pietistic background. p. 26
所以,Weber认为:只有那些有宗教背景的人,才最具有接受经济学教育的能力。在她们身上,集中精神的能力,以及对工作的最基本的责任感,常同一种善于计算收入高低的严密经济头脑,以及能够极大提高工作成效的冷静自制和节俭结合在一起。...that by far the best chances of economic education are found among this group. The ability of mental concentration, as well as the absolutely essential feeling of obligation to one's job, are here most often combined with a strict economy which calculates the possibility of high earnings, and a cool self-control and frugality which enormously increase performance. p. 26. ---- 这就为以劳动
所以要用宗教主义克服传统主义???!!是这个意思吗???
Weber认为那些人成功是因为“他们不想消费只想赚钱”(同时还有节俭的精神)-because they did not wish to consume but to earn. p. 30
Weber认为现代资本主义扩张的原动力不是资本额从何而来的问头,而是资本主义精神的发展问题。the new spirit, the spirit of modern capitalism. The question of the motive forces in the expansion of modern capitalism ….is above all, of the development of the spirit of capitalism. p.31
所以都是什么人拥有这样的精神呢?- they were men who had grown up in the hard school of life, calculating and daring at the same time, above all temperate and reliable, shrewd and completely devoted to their business, with strictly bourgeois opinions and principles. p. 32
Weber认为那些具有资本主义精神的人,如果问他们无休止的活动的意义是什么?为什么他们从不满足他们已经具有的东西? -- 他们也许会回答:为了子孙后代。--但是,这个不是他们所独有的,传统主义者也会有这样的动机。If you ask them what is the meaning of their restless activity, why they are never satisfied with what they have. -- they might answer "to provide for my children and grandchildren." - also a reason for the traditionalist. p. 32
所以, Weber认为,他们无休止活动以及不满足的原因是:连续不断的工作已经称谓他们生活的必要内容。more correctly, simply: that business with its continuous work has become a necessary part of their lives. -- That is in fact the only possible motivation. 但是Weber有觉得这个从个人幸福观点出发,看起来又是很不合理的. seen from the view-point of personal happiness, so irrational about this sort of life, where a man exists for the sake of his business, instead of the reverse. p. 32 (所以他到底是赞成还是不赞成??)
Modern Capitalism & Traditionalism
Behavior & religions
Historically, the four major forms of ascetic Protestantism have been Calvinism, Pietism, Methodism, and the Baptist sects. None of these churches are completely independent of each other, or even from non-ascetic churches. Even their strongest dogmatic differences were combined in various ways, and similar moral conduct can be found in all four. In this section, Weber presents some of the most...
2012-06-04 23:20
Historically, the four major forms of ascetic Protestantism have been Calvinism, Pietism, Methodism, and the Baptist sects. None of these churches are completely independent of each other, or even from non-ascetic churches. Even their strongest dogmatic differences were combined in various ways, and similar moral conduct can be found in all four.
In this section, Weber presents some of the most fundamental doctrines of Calvinism, as well as discussing how dogma affected practical living. After presenting the doctrines of Calvinism, Weber turns to three other ascetic Protestant religions
The first religion Weber describes is Calvinism. Calvinism's most distinctive dogma is the doctrine of predestination. Calvinists believe that God preordains which people are saved and which are damned. Calvinists came to this idea from logical necessity. Men exist for the sake of God, and to apply earthly standards of justice to God is meaningless and insulting. To question one's fate is similar to an animal complaining it wasn't born a man. Humans do not have the power to change God's decrees, and we only know that part of humanity is saved, and part damned.
It was psychologically necessary that they have some means of recognizing people in a state of grace, and two such means emerged. First, it was considered an absolute duty to consider oneself to be one of the saved, and to see doubts as temptations of evil. Secondly, worldly activity was encouraged as the best means of gaining that self-confidence.
Why could worldly activity take on this level of importance?
Calvinism rejected the mystical elements of Lutheranism, where humans were a vessel to be filled by God. Rather, Calvinists believed that God worked through them. Faith had to be shown in objective results. Good works were not a means to salvation, but they were a sign of having been chosen.
Weber observes that Calvinism expected systematic self-control, and provided no opportunity for forgiveness of weakness. "The God of Calvinism demanded of his believers not single good works, but a life of good works combined into a unified system." This was a rational and systematic approach to life. Since people had to prove their faith through worldly activity, Calvinism demanded a kind of worldly asceticism.
After presenting the doctrines of Calvinism, Weber turns to three other ascetic Protestant religions, the first being Pietism. Historically, the doctrine of predestination was also the starting point of Pietism, and Pietism is closely linked to Calvinism. Pietists had a deep distrust of the Church of the theologians, and they tried to live "a life freed from all the temptations of the world and in all its details dictated by God's will." They looked for signs of rebirth in their daily activity. Pietism had a greater emphasis on the emotional side of religion than orthodox Calvinism accepted, and Lutheran strains of Pietism existed.. First, Pietists believed that the methodical development of one's state of grace in terms of the law was a sign of grace. Secondly, they believed that God gives signs to those in states of perfection if they wait patiently. We see that Pietism had an uncertain basis for its asceticism that made it less consistent than Calvinism. This is partly due to Lutheran influences, and partly due to emotionalism. This study thus explains some of the differences in the character of people under the influence of Pietism instead of Calvinism.
Methodism represented a combination of emotional yet ascetic religion with an increasing indifference to Calvinism's doctrinal basis. Its strongest characteristic was its "methodical, systematic nature of conduct." Method was primarily used to bring about the emotional act of conversion, and the religion had a strong emotional character. Good works were only the means of knowing one's state of grace. The feeling of grace was necessary for salvation. From our viewpoint, the Methodist ethic had an uncertain foundation similar to Pietism's. Like Calvinism, they looked at conduct to assess true conversion. However, as a late product, Methodism can generally be ignored, since it doesn't add anything new to the idea of a calling.
The Baptist sects (Baptists, Mennonites, and Quakers) form an independent source of ascetic Protestantism other than Calvinism; their ethics rest on a different basis. These sects are unified by the idea of a believers' church, a community of only the true believers. This worked through individual revelation, and one had to wait for the Spirit and avoid sinful attachments to the world. Despite having a different foundation than Calvinism, they too rejected all idolatry of the flesh as a detraction from the respect due God. They believed in the continued relevance of revelation. Like the Calvinists, they devalued the sacraments as a means to salvation, which was an important form of rationalization. This led to the practice of worldly asceticism. An interest in economic occupations was increased by their rejection of politics; they embraced the ethic of "honesty is the best policy."
These forms of ascetic Protestantism are less central to Weber's study than Calvinism, and it is therefore less important to get a complete understanding of the doctrine and lifestyle of their followers. These religions are less rational than Calvinism, because they have a strong emotional element that introduces some of the "magic" that Calvinism rejected. These religions do encourage systematic and methodical living, however, which is an important trait of rationalization. The most important tie among these different religions is their worldliness and their belief in signs of religious grace. This leaves these religions with a concept of the calling that is centered in the practical world.
Weber now turns to the conclusion of his study, and attempts to understand the relationship between ascetic Protestantism and the spirit of capitalism. Weber then attempts to clarify the ways in which the Puritan idea of the calling and asceticism influenced the development of the capitalistic way of life.
First, asceticism opposed the spontaneous enjoyment of life and its opportunities. Such enjoyment leads people away from work in a calling and religion. Weber argues, "That powerful tendency toward uniformity of life, which today so immensely aids the capitalistic interest in the standardization of production, had its ideal foundations in the repudiation of all idolatry of the flesh."
Furthermore, the Puritans rejected any spending of money on entertainment that didn't "serve God's glory." They felt a duty to hold and increase their possessions. It was ascetic Protestantism that gave this attitude its ethical foundation. It had the psychological effect of freeing the acquisition if goods from traditionalist ethics' inhibitions.
Asceticism also condemned dishonesty and impulsive greed. The pursuit of wealth in itself was bad, but attaining it as the result of one's labor was a sign of God's blessing.
The religious asceticism also gave the businessmen industrious workers, and assured him that inequality was part of God's design. Thus, one of the major elements of the spirit of modern capitalism, rational conduct based on the idea of a calling, was "born" from the spirit of Christian asceticism.
0 有用 别叫我和桑 2019-09-05
假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必... 假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必要的话(或者不想像我这样无事自虐的话),可以不看。 (展开)
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摇头
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韋伯仍是至今我最喜愛的社會學家,但眼見太多人沒看過或沒看懂便故亂批評,實在可恨可笑又可惜。我覺得把現代社會形容得最極至和精妙的,至今仍是他!不過,看過後真的會很悲哀的,無怪乎他後來也精神崩潰了!
0 有用 Jaded™ 2013-02-06
就理论书而言,容易理解,引人入胜,值得反复品读。对于反思现今社会,有震聋发聩之感。
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经典~
0 有用 于弗雷迪 2020-10-08
摇头
0 有用 thebluepill 2020-05-18
看完公牛的最后之舞,非常想重温一下的韦伯的新教伦理与资本主义精神
0 有用 别叫我和桑 2019-09-05
假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必... 假期结束前看的最后一本书,没想到依旧学术……不愧是社会学创始人,这样的理论和论点方法在后人里的影响深刻。对Weber一直很尊重,个人感觉论述方式好与Marx的historical materialism。读完这本书感觉自己在西方宗教史上的修养不够,但却依然能理解Weber的大致意思。总体是叙述新教分支以后,做事标准的改变,导致了spirit of capitalism的产生。有意思,但我觉得没有必要的话(或者不想像我这样无事自虐的话),可以不看。 (展开)
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东一榔头西一棒槌!
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感谢GRE 英文版比去年中文版读得顺畅 值得纪念