“这就是参考书”
长篇采访录，列侬夫妇 Vs. 《花花公子》。事实上，《花花公子》关心的并不只是下三路，有史以来，也刊登过许多富于人文气息的东西，比如采访，比如文学。这本《All We Are Saying》就是《花花公子》记者对列侬夫妇的采访录，采访不是一次，而是几次，发生在1980年。最后一次采访后不久，列侬就惨死在癫佬查普曼的枪下，所以，如书的封面上所言，这的确是列侬生前接受的最后的重要（major）采访。
列侬之所以在1980年接受了记者的采访，跟他即将的复出有关系。他于1975年推出了翻唱专辑《摇滚乐》后就没有新作。1975年10月9日，他和洋子的儿子肖恩·列侬出生后，列侬停下了工作，做起了家庭妇男，直到1980年才推出了新作《双重幻想》。
这本采访录的内容几乎无所不包，让人们从列侬以及洋子口里，得知他和“披头士”乐队历史上的种种事实。在许多披头士歌迷的眼里，洋子是导致披头士解散的罪人，采访录中一开始，洋子的发言也不少，看得出很有思想，和列侬的确是志同道合，披头士之解散怪罪于她也是轻率的。在后来的采访录中，列侬也解释了很多歌曲的创作，想来是歌迷乐于了解的。
在几次采访的间隙，记者又得知列侬又接受了别家媒体的采访时，流露出了失望，列侬安慰他说他们的采访成书后，这才是“参考书”（It will be the reference book）。的确，本书出来后，任何写披头士的书都必定会参考这本书，也绕不过去。
抄：
P6 前言中采访者所言：
Read their words, again or for the first time. I know how much John and Yoko’s experience influenced my life, so I know how it can influence others’ lives. Their message is simultaneously complex and simple: Know yourself and learn to think for yourself. Love is the answer. Do for others when you are able. Though living is easy with eyes closed, we must fight the impulse. If we don’t like what we see, change it. At least try. Celbrate life. Imagine a better world.
P47 列侬谈到披头士解散
I was too scared to break away from the Beatles, but I’d been looking to it since ’65 when we stopped touring. And maybe Paul had been , too-I don’t know. I can’t speak for the others.
P48 列侬谈到认识小野洋子后他“重色轻友”：
When I met Yoko is when you meet your first woman and you leave the guys at the bar and you don’t go play football anymore and you don’t go play snooker and billiards. Maybe some guys like to do it every Friday night or something and continue that relationship with the boys, but once I found the woman, the boys became of no interest whatoever, other than they were like old friends. You know: “Hi, how are you? How’s your wife?” That kind of thing. You know the song: “ Those wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine. ” Well, it didn’t hit me till whatever age I was when I met Yoko, which was twenty-six. Nineteen sixty-six we met, but the full impact didn’t… we din’t get married till ’68…
P57 列侬谈到“死者崇拜”的问题：
Playboy: You disagree with Neil Young’s lyric in “Rust Never Sleeps”: “It’s better to burn out than to fade away…”
Lennon: I hate it. It’s better to fade away like an old soldier than to burn out. If he was talking about burning out like Sid Vicious, forget it. I don’t appreciate the worship of dead Sid Vicious or of dead James Dean or dead John Wayne. It’s the same thing. Making Sid Vicious a hero, Jim Morrision- It’s garbage to me. I worship the people who survive. Gloria Swanson. Greta Garbo. They’re saying John Wayne conquered cancer- he whipped it like a man. You know, I’m sorry that he died and all that-I’m sorry for his family-but he didn’t whip cancer. It whipped him. I don’t want Sean worshipping John Wayne or Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious. What do they teach you? Nothing. Death. Sid Vicious died for what? So that we might rock? I mean, it’s garbage, you know. If Neil Yong admires that sentiment so much, why doesn’t he do it? Because he sure as hell faded away and came back many times, like all of us. No thank you. I’ll take the living and the healthy.
P72 列侬谈到对披头士时期歌曲的看法
When I was a Beatle, I thought we were the best fucking group in the goddamn world, and believing that is what made us what we were, whether you call it the best pop group or the best rock’n’roll group or whatever. As far as we were concerned, we were the best, but we thought we were the best before anybody else had even heard of us, back in Hamburg and Liverpool. So in that respect I think the Beatles are the best thing that ever happened in pop music, but you play me those tracks and I want to remake every damn one of them. I heard “Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds” last night. It is a great track, a great song, but it isn’t a great track because It wasn’t made right. You know what I mean? I feel I could remake every fucking one of them better. But that’s the artistic trip, isn’t it? That is why you keep going, always trying to make that next one the best.
P82 披头士解散后有一阵子列侬跟麦卡蒂尼交往还挺多
That was a period when Paul Just kept turning up at our door with a guitar. I would let him in, but finally I said to him, “Please call before you come over. It’s not 1956, and turning up at the door isn’t the same anymore. You know, just give me a ring.” He was upset by that, but I didn’t mean it badly. I just meant that I was taking care of a baby all day, and some guy turns up at the door…But anyway, back on that night, he and Linda walked in and he and I were just sitting there watching the show…
P85 采访中，记者一再问列侬披头士会不会重组的问题，当然这也是正是当时广大群众想问的，也希望他们会重组，但是在这方面，列侬始终不给人一点希望。这里有一段：
And for the ones who want to relive it. “Resurrect the Beatles” and all, for those who din’t understand the Beatles and the Sixties in the first place, what the fuck are we going to do for them now? [Passionately, rhythmically] Do we have to divide the fish and the loaves for the multitudes again? Do we have to get crucified again? Do we have to do the walking on water again because a whole pile of dummies didn’t see it the first time or didn’t believe it when they saw it? That’s what they are asking: “Get of the corss. I didn’t understand it the first time. Can you do it again? ”No way! You can’t do things twice. What’s that thing? You can never go home. It doesn’t exist. What’s that we’re withholding it from you; we don’t possess it to withold it. It was never ours in the first place. It existed of its own.
P94 列侬的政治观
In England there are only two things to be, basically: You are either for the labor movement or for the capitalist movement. You either become a right-wing Archie Bunker if you were in the class I’m in, or you become an instinctive socialist, which I was. That meant I think people should get their false teeth and their health looked after, all the rest of it. But apart from that, I worked for money and I wanted to be rich. So what the hell. If that’s a paradox, then I’m not a socialist. What the hell. But I am not anything. I was instinctively for the workers because that was the people I was living with, although lots of workers are right-wing. What I used to be was guilty about money. That’s why I lost it, either by giving it away or allowing myself to be screwed by so-called managers, or whatever you call them. But subconsiciously it was because I was guilty about having money.
(Luke按：书中透露，列侬夫妇当时已经开始把收入的十分之一捐献出去)
P106 这段话是小野洋子说的：
Yes, I think that love will never die. Once you know somebody, you can never unknow that person. And knowing is loving. So you can never get out of love. There might be misunderstandings and separating for other reasons, but love is always there. Staying together is just one form of love. Maybe that’s a strong love and expression of love. But love is a soul thing. It always stays there. I don’t think people should be insecure about falling out of love. If they’re not afraid to love, then they’re always going to love. Everybody’s got love and that’s why they want to know how to make love last and all that. Everybody’s really concerned about love. It’s the biggest issue. Love makes everything work. It makes everything grow.
P136 在《花花公子》的采访正在进行时，《新闻周刊》刊登了两页的列侬专访，《花花公子》方面有点不乐意，列侬安慰他们，也揭示了此次采访在列侬心里的分量：
I hope you don’t think we blew our jism with Newsweek, because I don’t think we did. This is larger and better and deeper. It will be the reference book.
P150 乔治·哈里森出了一本书，对列侬只字不提，列侬感到有点伤心，讨论了半天后，又说了如下一段，显示他在心里对于诸披头士的感情，也不再愿意在气头上说话而被利用。
I’d like to clarify that. You see, I am slightly resentful of George’s book, but don’t get me wrong-I will love those guys. The Beatles are over, but John, Paul, George and Ringo go on. I mean, just because I’m upset about George’s book doesn’t mean that’ll all I feel. Do you understand? I like them and it’s over. Get it? I don’t want to start another whole thing between me and George just because of the way I feel today. Tomorrow I will feel absolutely differently. It’s not important, anyway. I don’t feel that or anything only about him or any of them. It’s very complicated and there are a lot of mixed emotions about all of them. That’s why it’s difficult to say anything. I don’t want to come off niggling. It’s stupid inasmuch as the repercussions are not worth some sort of offhand remarks about each other.
P178
Playboy: Paul tells the story and John philosophiezes.
Lennon: Sure. Well, I was always like that, you know. I was like that before the Bealtles and after the Beatles. I always asked why people did things and why society was like it was. I didn’t just accept it for what it was apparently doing. I always looked below the surface.
P187 在《Revolution》中，列侬反对暴力革命。
The statement in “Revolution” was mine. The lyrics stand today. They’re still my feeling about politics: I want to see the plan. That is what I used to say to Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman. Count me out if it is for violence. Don’t expect me on the barricade unless it is with followers. As far as overthrowing something in the name of Marxism or Christanity, I want to know what you’re going to do after you’ve knocked it all down. I mean, can’t we use some of it? What’s the point of bombing Wall Street? If you want to change the system, change the system. It’s is no good shooting people.
P210 Playboy: You express even your most painful emotions publicly.
Lennon: I made the decision at sixteen or seventeen that what I did, I wanted everybody to see. I wasn’t going after the aestheticism or the monastery or the lone artist who supposeedly doesn’t care what people think about his work. I care a lot whether people hate it or love it, because it’s part of me and it hurts me when they hate it, or hate me, and it’s pleasing when they like it. But, as many public figures have said, “The praise is never enough, and the critism always bites deep.” That’s just the predicament of being som…”
列侬之所以在1980年接受了记者的采访，跟他即将的复出有关系。他于1975年推出了翻唱专辑《摇滚乐》后就没有新作。1975年10月9日，他和洋子的儿子肖恩·列侬出生后，列侬停下了工作，做起了家庭妇男，直到1980年才推出了新作《双重幻想》。
这本采访录的内容几乎无所不包，让人们从列侬以及洋子口里，得知他和“披头士”乐队历史上的种种事实。在许多披头士歌迷的眼里，洋子是导致披头士解散的罪人，采访录中一开始，洋子的发言也不少，看得出很有思想，和列侬的确是志同道合，披头士之解散怪罪于她也是轻率的。在后来的采访录中，列侬也解释了很多歌曲的创作，想来是歌迷乐于了解的。
在几次采访的间隙，记者又得知列侬又接受了别家媒体的采访时，流露出了失望，列侬安慰他说他们的采访成书后，这才是“参考书”（It will be the reference book）。的确，本书出来后，任何写披头士的书都必定会参考这本书，也绕不过去。
抄：
P6 前言中采访者所言：
Read their words, again or for the first time. I know how much John and Yoko’s experience influenced my life, so I know how it can influence others’ lives. Their message is simultaneously complex and simple: Know yourself and learn to think for yourself. Love is the answer. Do for others when you are able. Though living is easy with eyes closed, we must fight the impulse. If we don’t like what we see, change it. At least try. Celbrate life. Imagine a better world.
P47 列侬谈到披头士解散
I was too scared to break away from the Beatles, but I’d been looking to it since ’65 when we stopped touring. And maybe Paul had been , too-I don’t know. I can’t speak for the others.
P48 列侬谈到认识小野洋子后他“重色轻友”：
When I met Yoko is when you meet your first woman and you leave the guys at the bar and you don’t go play football anymore and you don’t go play snooker and billiards. Maybe some guys like to do it every Friday night or something and continue that relationship with the boys, but once I found the woman, the boys became of no interest whatoever, other than they were like old friends. You know: “Hi, how are you? How’s your wife?” That kind of thing. You know the song: “ Those wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine. ” Well, it didn’t hit me till whatever age I was when I met Yoko, which was twenty-six. Nineteen sixty-six we met, but the full impact didn’t… we din’t get married till ’68…
P57 列侬谈到“死者崇拜”的问题：
Playboy: You disagree with Neil Young’s lyric in “Rust Never Sleeps”: “It’s better to burn out than to fade away…”
Lennon: I hate it. It’s better to fade away like an old soldier than to burn out. If he was talking about burning out like Sid Vicious, forget it. I don’t appreciate the worship of dead Sid Vicious or of dead James Dean or dead John Wayne. It’s the same thing. Making Sid Vicious a hero, Jim Morrision- It’s garbage to me. I worship the people who survive. Gloria Swanson. Greta Garbo. They’re saying John Wayne conquered cancer- he whipped it like a man. You know, I’m sorry that he died and all that-I’m sorry for his family-but he didn’t whip cancer. It whipped him. I don’t want Sean worshipping John Wayne or Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious. What do they teach you? Nothing. Death. Sid Vicious died for what? So that we might rock? I mean, it’s garbage, you know. If Neil Yong admires that sentiment so much, why doesn’t he do it? Because he sure as hell faded away and came back many times, like all of us. No thank you. I’ll take the living and the healthy.
P72 列侬谈到对披头士时期歌曲的看法
When I was a Beatle, I thought we were the best fucking group in the goddamn world, and believing that is what made us what we were, whether you call it the best pop group or the best rock’n’roll group or whatever. As far as we were concerned, we were the best, but we thought we were the best before anybody else had even heard of us, back in Hamburg and Liverpool. So in that respect I think the Beatles are the best thing that ever happened in pop music, but you play me those tracks and I want to remake every damn one of them. I heard “Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds” last night. It is a great track, a great song, but it isn’t a great track because It wasn’t made right. You know what I mean? I feel I could remake every fucking one of them better. But that’s the artistic trip, isn’t it? That is why you keep going, always trying to make that next one the best.
P82 披头士解散后有一阵子列侬跟麦卡蒂尼交往还挺多
That was a period when Paul Just kept turning up at our door with a guitar. I would let him in, but finally I said to him, “Please call before you come over. It’s not 1956, and turning up at the door isn’t the same anymore. You know, just give me a ring.” He was upset by that, but I didn’t mean it badly. I just meant that I was taking care of a baby all day, and some guy turns up at the door…But anyway, back on that night, he and Linda walked in and he and I were just sitting there watching the show…
P85 采访中，记者一再问列侬披头士会不会重组的问题，当然这也是正是当时广大群众想问的，也希望他们会重组，但是在这方面，列侬始终不给人一点希望。这里有一段：
And for the ones who want to relive it. “Resurrect the Beatles” and all, for those who din’t understand the Beatles and the Sixties in the first place, what the fuck are we going to do for them now? [Passionately, rhythmically] Do we have to divide the fish and the loaves for the multitudes again? Do we have to get crucified again? Do we have to do the walking on water again because a whole pile of dummies didn’t see it the first time or didn’t believe it when they saw it? That’s what they are asking: “Get of the corss. I didn’t understand it the first time. Can you do it again? ”No way! You can’t do things twice. What’s that thing? You can never go home. It doesn’t exist. What’s that we’re withholding it from you; we don’t possess it to withold it. It was never ours in the first place. It existed of its own.
P94 列侬的政治观
In England there are only two things to be, basically: You are either for the labor movement or for the capitalist movement. You either become a right-wing Archie Bunker if you were in the class I’m in, or you become an instinctive socialist, which I was. That meant I think people should get their false teeth and their health looked after, all the rest of it. But apart from that, I worked for money and I wanted to be rich. So what the hell. If that’s a paradox, then I’m not a socialist. What the hell. But I am not anything. I was instinctively for the workers because that was the people I was living with, although lots of workers are right-wing. What I used to be was guilty about money. That’s why I lost it, either by giving it away or allowing myself to be screwed by so-called managers, or whatever you call them. But subconsiciously it was because I was guilty about having money.
(Luke按：书中透露，列侬夫妇当时已经开始把收入的十分之一捐献出去)
P106 这段话是小野洋子说的：
Yes, I think that love will never die. Once you know somebody, you can never unknow that person. And knowing is loving. So you can never get out of love. There might be misunderstandings and separating for other reasons, but love is always there. Staying together is just one form of love. Maybe that’s a strong love and expression of love. But love is a soul thing. It always stays there. I don’t think people should be insecure about falling out of love. If they’re not afraid to love, then they’re always going to love. Everybody’s got love and that’s why they want to know how to make love last and all that. Everybody’s really concerned about love. It’s the biggest issue. Love makes everything work. It makes everything grow.
P136 在《花花公子》的采访正在进行时，《新闻周刊》刊登了两页的列侬专访，《花花公子》方面有点不乐意，列侬安慰他们，也揭示了此次采访在列侬心里的分量：
I hope you don’t think we blew our jism with Newsweek, because I don’t think we did. This is larger and better and deeper. It will be the reference book.
P150 乔治·哈里森出了一本书，对列侬只字不提，列侬感到有点伤心，讨论了半天后，又说了如下一段，显示他在心里对于诸披头士的感情，也不再愿意在气头上说话而被利用。
I’d like to clarify that. You see, I am slightly resentful of George’s book, but don’t get me wrong-I will love those guys. The Beatles are over, but John, Paul, George and Ringo go on. I mean, just because I’m upset about George’s book doesn’t mean that’ll all I feel. Do you understand? I like them and it’s over. Get it? I don’t want to start another whole thing between me and George just because of the way I feel today. Tomorrow I will feel absolutely differently. It’s not important, anyway. I don’t feel that or anything only about him or any of them. It’s very complicated and there are a lot of mixed emotions about all of them. That’s why it’s difficult to say anything. I don’t want to come off niggling. It’s stupid inasmuch as the repercussions are not worth some sort of offhand remarks about each other.
P178
Playboy: Paul tells the story and John philosophiezes.
Lennon: Sure. Well, I was always like that, you know. I was like that before the Bealtles and after the Beatles. I always asked why people did things and why society was like it was. I didn’t just accept it for what it was apparently doing. I always looked below the surface.
P187 在《Revolution》中，列侬反对暴力革命。
The statement in “Revolution” was mine. The lyrics stand today. They’re still my feeling about politics: I want to see the plan. That is what I used to say to Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman. Count me out if it is for violence. Don’t expect me on the barricade unless it is with followers. As far as overthrowing something in the name of Marxism or Christanity, I want to know what you’re going to do after you’ve knocked it all down. I mean, can’t we use some of it? What’s the point of bombing Wall Street? If you want to change the system, change the system. It’s is no good shooting people.
P210 Playboy: You express even your most painful emotions publicly.
Lennon: I made the decision at sixteen or seventeen that what I did, I wanted everybody to see. I wasn’t going after the aestheticism or the monastery or the lone artist who supposeedly doesn’t care what people think about his work. I care a lot whether people hate it or love it, because it’s part of me and it hurts me when they hate it, or hate me, and it’s pleasing when they like it. But, as many public figures have said, “The praise is never enough, and the critism always bites deep.” That’s just the predicament of being som…”
有关键情节透露
- 作者: David Sheff
- 出版: St. Martin's Griffin
- 定价: USD 12.95
- 装帧: Paperback
- 页数: 192
- 时间: 2000-12-8